Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:06 Everybody. I love Google 'cause you can look up these names and do business with them because we love our sponsors. Kubota of Chattanooga, guardian Investment Advisors optimize you of Chat Chattanooga, the Barn Nursery, the Vascular Institute of Chattanooga, our House Studio's Gym, alchemy, med Spa, Buchanan, and Associates. First Lead You podcast. Do me a huge favor, do business with our sponsors. They're the ones that help keep this program and all of our programs on your favorite podcast platforms. John Lewis, how you doing buddy?
Speaker 2 00:00:43 Doing fantastic, man. How you doing man?
Speaker 1 00:00:44 This is gonna be a fun one. You move at the speed of sound and so do I, I move kind of quick with my words and thoughts. So I have a strange feeling that people may have to listen to this on like half speed because me and you move at a different, at a different pace than a lot of people. And I love it. You know, part of sales is learning that old school stuff mirror and pace.
Speaker 2 00:01:06 100%.
Speaker 1 00:01:07 Yeah. So I'm gonna try to not mirror and pace as much because I'm the same gear as you are.
Speaker 2 00:01:11 We're gonna feed off each other, man. All right.
Speaker 1 00:01:13 May an hour podcast in 20 minutes, that could what we do, let's do this real quick. I like to bookend it with everything like what you're doing now. Okay. Because at some point in time I love to recommend radio for advertisers, right. I've been in it a long time. I sold it a long time. We'll talk about maybe how it's changed, but at the end of the day, it has a huge place in the marketing, you know, for everybody's marketing. What do you do right now? And real quick, all of a sudden, how many markets are you in charge of?
Speaker 2 00:01:39 Well, just in charge of two markets. Okay. Chattanooga and Huntsville. Okay. I live in Huntsville. I'm here in Chattanooga about two days each week. Oversee this market as well.
Speaker 1 00:01:47 Four Cumulus. Yes. How many stations are in Huntsville? Under
Speaker 2 00:01:51 The, yeah. Five stations.
Speaker 1 00:01:52 And how many here? Four.
Speaker 2 00:01:53 So nine stations total.
Speaker 1 00:01:55 You like it?
Speaker 2 00:01:56 I freaking love it, man. How
Speaker 1 00:01:57 Long have you been in radio?
Speaker 2 00:01:58 17 years.
Speaker 1 00:01:59 Really?
Speaker 2 00:02:00 Yes. Yeah. I came from actually a uniform background, the Cintas Uniform Company. I had six positions there, and about eight years I had a lot of success in my twenties there and enjoyed it. Right. I was 30 years old and it was the height of the recession back in beginning of 2009. And I was 30 years old, man. I'd had five promotions in an eight year period and had way too big of a head. And I thought, you know what, man? I've been a sales rep, a sales trainer, sales manager, service manager, general manager, a director. I know what I'm doing. And they decided at that point they were downsizing a little bit and they wanted to demote me from a director of sales to a sales manager in a local market. Right. Should have taken the job, man, I didn't realize it's January of 2009 and we're about to have about a 14% unemployment.
Speaker 2 00:02:43 So I said, no, I'll take the severance. I'll find another job. You know, gimme three months of pay and I'm gonna go land a job somewhere in the next 30 days. Heck yeah. Well, I didn't realize I'd be outta work for four months. And that's when a recruiter contacted me about Cumulus Media. And I thought, I don't know the first thing about radio, I don't know the first thing about media. Why are these people talking to me? Candidly, I found out later that radio was in the same situation a lot of companies were, which was people are spending less money and advertising had went down and they said, listen, John, you track record shows. You know how to grow a sales organization, you know how to grow revenue, we can teach you radio. And I thought, interesting. So that's what happened, man, I, I went to Albany, Georgia. It's, I don't know if you, I, I don't mean to offend any of your listeners, but that's the armpit of Georgia, man. It's, it's in southwest Georgia. You did
Speaker 1 00:03:30 For our listeners, unless in Albany, other than that I
Speaker 2 00:03:33 All
Speaker 1 00:03:33 The time,
Speaker 2 00:03:33 But Yeah. But Al but Albany, Georgia, it, it was a great place to learn radio. 'cause it was small market radio and if you made a mistake, it wasn't, wasn't magnified. Right. But I realized there that 90% of what I learned in both sales and sales management with people, it translated to radio same as that. Did the uniforms in any market and we had a tremendous amount of success there in Albany. And we took that market from 67 outta 68 cumulus markets in the rankings to number one in a year, man. Really? Yeah. And they promoted me to Pensacola. And I've, I've been in a lot of different markets. 11 markets Yeah. In a 17 year period with Cumulus. But I, I love it.
Speaker 1 00:04:07 Well, we're gonna talk about that. There's trick not tricks. There's, there's foundational things you can do. Each market's different a little bit, but there's some foundational things that you can bring and we're gonna talk about culture and sales environment and all that. Sure. But I will say, I, you're gonna love this story, me and you're gonna share stories back and forth. Alright? So when I interviewed, I just got married and sold. I had a little small commercial cleaning company in my twenties with a partner, and I sold it to him. But when I first interviewed at, back then, it was Radio Chattanooga. Before it was Citadel. Before it became Cumulus, I interviewed, and in my presentation it was a three, three or four. I don't know how it is now as far as the interview process. You did the resume and the application and an interview and then another interview.
Speaker 1 00:04:45 And then you had to come back and present. And then they gave you their final decision or probation period, whatever. And they paid you like $9 a day or whatever to work there until you got on commission. But the reason I say that is I used this story last week. I got everything. I got the, the, the non-important stuff wrong and the important stuff. Right? So I, you know, kindred Giata was there. Yeah. I spelled his name completely wrong because, you know, it's a foreign name as I like to tell him all the time. But it's, I spelled it like HUM he gave, here's how bad it was. He gave me a business card. So I'm such a moron. I'm putting it together in my little P brain. But I had nailed so many, I think just inherently from I'm must kind of got that personality. I nailed some core things that the people involved from Danny to Chuck to Kennard, they just saw some stuff of like, okay. And the reason I bring that up is they said what you said, we can teach you those things. We can teach you radio. We know, you know how to read. Just slow down. Don't be so nervous. But they, if you hit some core things, they can teach you the details of that craft. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 00:05:50 You hit the nail on the head. Yeah. People say all the time, what are you looking for if you're hiring a radio sales rep? I said the same thing I look for in any rep. The reality is I can't teach you when and how to say something. Mm. So if, if I, if I find somebody who's doing fast food, but they have a dynamic personality, they can think faster on their feet and hold a conversation. I can load their lips with the right things to say. I can give them the right questions to ask. I can teach anyone how to be great at sales, but I can't teach you when and how to say things. I can't teach you how to read people. You have that or you don't. So those are the unteachable people think you can make anyone good at sales and you can't 'cause people that can't read body language, people can't, that can't read others. People that don't know when and, and what tone to say it in. They can't do sales.
Speaker 1 00:06:30 I always said, servers are great. Yes. At least they got good potential as far as I'm concerned. It
Speaker 2 00:06:36 Depends on the stage of life. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:06:38 Maturity. So servers are pretty good. And then you had said something and I was gonna bring it up, but servers have always done me well when I was either hiring or looking for people that ask questions or attentive to body language. And I'll give you a great example. If, if me and you're in involved in a really serious conversation at lunch, whether it's business or politics or personal, I've watched servers interrupt to fill water instead of just coming up and filling the water. Or better yet, acknowledge that and make our circle. And I've watched while I'm talking to you. 'cause that stuff I pick up on, right? Just like being in radio, when you hear radio ads in other markets that are shitty radio ads drives me insane. Yes. My daughter grew up in this world and billboards and radio. 'cause I was in both, and I would drive and go, what a crappy billboard. Yes. And my daughter, 21, she goes, do you know how frustrating it is to be in a car with friends and go, that's a terrible billboard. They're
Speaker 2 00:07:29 She's still evaluating. Yes.
Speaker 1 00:07:30 All the time. But to my point, you know, a good salesperson when you see the potential there. Correct? Yes. A hundred percent. Do you like the interview process?
Speaker 2 00:07:38 I love the interview process. I'll tell you, there's two questions I ask in any, every interview. The one question I I'll tell you that I ask is, 'cause people ask the stupidest questions that people can prepare for. I don't want to hear what you prepared for. I'll ask you this question in an interview, Clint. I'll say, Clint, what are people most likely to misunderstand about you? Now granted, I don't even care what his answer is. What you, your answer could be anything. I just wanna know in five seconds or less, do you have something to say back? If you do, then you can think fast on your feet. If you can't, you say, oh, good question, sir. Let me think about that. Wow. I care too much. Yeah. But, but when they say, when they say that, yeah. You know, the reality is I know they can't think faster on their feet.
Speaker 2 00:08:16 The interviews, as far as I'm concerned, the interview's over because they can't think faster on their feet. I ask you, what do people most likely misunderstand? If you tell me something, say, Hey, you know what, John, they, you know, I think sometimes people think, I don't care because of this. Or they, they misinterpret this. Then I ask them, so you think that's a misinterpretation? They say, well, yeah. I'm like, well, what have you done in the last 12 months to change that? Mm. If you think they're misinterpreting it, what have you done to change that perception? Mm. You know, and if they can't give me a good answer to that, it it, it to me. I just wanna see if they can think faster on their feet, because that's what sales requires. You know, I also ask, you know, what do you think is the most unfair feedback you've ever received?
Speaker 2 00:08:52 People don't like to hear that. They don't like to answer that question because it makes 'em look like a complainer. But if they can come up with something, you know what, well, my supervisor once said this to me, or my boss said this, you know, and that sort of thing. I say, well, was it really unfair? You know, why do they feel that way? What have, what have you done to change that perception? Once again, I'm trying to get these people off guard a little bit to see how fast they can think. Because the stupid questions is, why are you interested in this job? Tell me three things about yourself. You know, what's your strengths? Gimme your strengths, your weaknesses. Yeah. Those questions. I mean, they're just fillers and they don't really tell you if somebody knows how to communicate. You
Speaker 1 00:09:24 Know, one, it's funny you say that. 'cause immediately I went to answering the questions. Yes, that's
Speaker 2 00:09:28 Right.
Speaker 1 00:09:28 So, but it's funny you say that because the one about the critical feedback, I cannot tell people, especially young folks, how much or how many times I would get critical feedback that hurt my feelings, even if it was delivered in a professional manner from someone who is a superior of mine or even a, just a peer. But they, I knew they cared about me. Right. But my initial response when I was young is, you know what? Screw you. Right? And I literally, I would say it, there's, there's somebody out there was my manager, and we had that good blow up one time. He said it, I said it. And I came back later and apologized. And so did he. We were both learning how to do our jobs. Right? Right. We were young. We were late twenties, early thirties. The reason I'm saying that is that's a big deal. When you start, when you said that, I thought to myself, how do you head handle critical feedback? I think that changes over time too. It does. And and even though you're asking it for just to see how they can think, I'm answering it on my end going, man, that's changed a lot. Now I beg people for critical feedback. Right. I'm like, I need to get out of my echo chamber of my brain. Please tell me where I suck at. Well, that's
Speaker 2 00:10:24 What I do with my, with my employees. They'll all tell you about twice a year, I set up a box in the office and it's an anonymous box. And I ask everyone to send three things they like about me, my management style, and who I am, and three things they don't like about me. Mm. They type it up so I can't see who wrote it. They cut it up. So each one puts six things in the box. And the end, I've got 50 things people like about me. 50 things they don't. Now granted, it's kind of harsh when people are honest, but it's the only way to get better. It's the only way to get that real feedback from people of what you're doing that's working. Because sometimes you'll see some things like five or six different people love something about you that you didn't even realize you did, but like, well, that this is a big deal to five or six different people. I need to make sure that I'm continuing to do this. But you also see what's discouraging people or maybe some things that you're doing that are having an effect that you didn't mean for them to have. I don't worry about one negative comment in there. That's an anomaly. That's, that's, I hate
Speaker 1 00:11:16 That jacket he wears. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:11:17 Whatever. Right? Who cares? But it, the truth of the matter is, you know, I learned this. I'll tell you I was leaving. It's, it's a pretty quick story. I was leaving the Cincinnati market and it was my last night there. And I decided to take out the top rep, the three sales managers and the operations manager. And we went out for drinks because it was my last night there, right. I told them, I said, listen guys, I said, I'm about to go to Chattanooga next week. And I'm, we're going back to Cumulus because I was with Radio one in Cincinnati, and I said, I'm gonna go buy a round of drinks. So when I get back though, I want each one of you guys to tell me one thing I could have done better here.
Speaker 2 00:11:49 This is the first time I've ever really solicited feedback. In this case. They have to see me after tomorrow. I'm not their boss anymore. You know, so one lady, her name was Michelle Giblin, and Michelle was my top rep. She said something to me that really opened my eyes. She goes, John, she goes, when you first got here, you tried to create a culture where it was a level playing field where we're all on the same team, all on the same page, all played by the same roles. She's like, but someone like me who had been here 12 years and had a lot of success, it didn't make me feel valuable. It made me feel like I was no better than someone who'd been here 12 days. Mm. And I thought, wow. You know what? I never, I never thought about it like that, and I never intended that.
Speaker 2 00:12:25 But it was an unintended consequence of me setting expectations high, setting 'em clear, not letting people fall short, giving people the answers to the test, putting us all on the same page. So how that changed my management style was my first two days here in Chattanooga in 2014, I sat down with Deanna Roberts, Andy Holder, Tanisha Staley. I sat down with Scott Chase and I knew they were my, they were my biggest influencers. And instead of just going, coming in and making all the changes that I make, eight o'clock sales meeting every single morning, phone blocks, you know, you know, these set times and all these expectations. I sat down with each one of them individually and said, this is what I typically do in a market to help turn the market around. What are your thoughts? What are your concerns? Getting
Speaker 1 00:13:08 Buy-in. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:13:09 I got their buy-in. I tell you what, it usually takes me 90 days to turn a market around. This market turned around in 14 days because I had internal allies. I had the Deanna's, the Scots, the Andes of the world behind the scenes, who knew my heart, who had some buy-in on it. Deanna's, the reason we changed from eight o'clock meetings to eight 30 meetings. 'cause she said eight o'clock would be a little tough. And for different reasons. I said, you know what? That's not a mountain worth dying on. If we wanna have an eight 30 meeting, does that sound more fair to you? She said, yes. So now I had internal allies. So with all these changes that I'm making, I had the influencers in the building. Well, that doesn't happen without Mic Michelle. Yeah. Giving me that feedback. But
Speaker 1 00:13:44 Also it shows that you listen. I mean, absolutely. If, if you ask for feedback and then it falls on you, you, they can usually people, human beings that are in tune with other people can tell if you're asking to ask or you're asking to learn. Right? Like, am I asking just to, to get the air quote buy-in? Or am I asking because I'm willing to change some stuff. Like, Hey, mine's eight o'clock, no, eight 30. Wow. Gotta get kids to school. Maybe it's a little easier on traffic around where people most, okay. To your point, not, not worth dying on. And it's funny you say that because now that you know it now, well, let me ask you this, my back up. Do you track your stuff? In other words, I always tell salespeople to track certain things, KPIs, LPIs, whatever they are. Right? And LPIs are life performance indicators. 'cause I have found a lot of business owners and salespeople who are very driven. We end up tracking how many calls you made this week? What's your average client worth? All these KPIs. But they don't track, did I go to church like I want to, did I spend enough time with my kids? Did I go work out LPIs life? Do you track your stuff or do you a creature of habit to where, you know, your habits are gonna take care of all that?
Speaker 2 00:14:44 That's a great question, Glen. Yeah. I I'm can candidly, I'm a I've turned into a machine over the last 10 years. Yeah. You know, my morning routine, it's a routine. You know, I, I wake up out of bed. I say three things when I get out of bed. I mean, I literally stand up within five seconds of waking up. I say, I'm gonna attack today with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind. I say that as I walk through the doorway. I hit the doorway. Like I'm a team going through the tunnel. I'm gonna attack today with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind. I say, God, whatever you're up to today, I wanna be a part of it. And I also say, God, make me a miracle delivery agent. There are people out there praying. You're looking for willing hearts to use. Let me be your volunteer. I volunteer for assignment.
Speaker 2 00:15:21 I go out there and I go through my, I ams man. I say, what follows I am follows you. And if you say, I'm tired, I'm worn out. I'm exhausted. That, that follows you. I wake up every morning. I've got about 25 positive affirmations. I say this all the time. You'll never rise above your own self image. And if you don't believe in yourself, why should anyone else? Because Clint, you know yourself better than anyone in the world. You know yourself better than your family, your friends, your coworkers. If you don't believe in yourself, why should anyone else? And most people want the world and others to help form their self-image. Me personally, ma'am, if you listen to my IMS in the morning, you'd be like, seriously, John. But you know what, here's the truth. I talk about the way that I look. I mean, some of mine are scripture based.
Speaker 2 00:15:58 Like I, I'm blessed. I'm highly favored. I'm more than a conquer. But I also talk about how good looking I am, how fun I am, how dynamic I am, how talented I am. I go through those ims, man. And I tell you what, I get myself going in the mornings with those positive affirmations. And the truth of the matter is, I don't need somebody to tell me that something positive throughout my day. It helps. I love the tailwind. Yeah. But that's, but I get my engine going first thing in the morning, and I attack every task with the highest level of enthusiasm all day, every day. And that, that's, that's the difference. But
Speaker 1 00:16:28 That's a, that two things on that one, it's, it's different in a world that chases affirmation and attention. You know, we, we now have what we call influencers. And, and I, and I've, I did the podcast a long time ago, well, a year and a half ago. We're only influencers. Somehow we just look at, for sure this person has 5 million followers and they have 20,000 responses to this stupid post. And we go, oh, they're an influencer. And I'm think, yeah, but you have two kids, or a wife or three peers or, or you're a manage a team or lead a team, you're an influencer. Influence is not a always a matter of how many. It's just we have to realize we all influence people at some point. Hundred percent in level, some point in time. The last thing I'll say is it's easy to tell my kids.
Speaker 1 00:17:07 And as I've as you age, it has to become more of a habit. Our brains are computers. What we put in it actually builds its own algorithm and pulls out. So I love the affirmations. Now here's the side question, though. I say this to myself, and I know it's me. 'cause I know my voice is self-love also means having some harsh conversations with yourself sometimes. Because as, as much as a creature of habit as you are, there are times, I'm assuming, in your life, you're human and you get off track and you let look at yourself in the mirror. 'cause part of self-love. If I love John and you're a friend of mine, and I see you doing something that is, that is self-destructive, I feel an obligation as your friend to go, Hey dude, what about this? Right? How can I help you? Well, if you're gonna have that love for others, you gotta have that love for yourself. Look yourself in the middle. Go, Hey dude, Clint, why are you eating that man? Or why are you spending that? Or why are you talking to people that way?
Speaker 2 00:17:54 It's the same way you talk to others though. If you're managing people, leading people helping influence people always criticize the deed, not the person. What I mean is this, if you have a child, okay, people say all the time, you're being a bad boy. No. And you're not a bad boy. If my, if my son Isaiah Isaiah's doing something wrong, Isaiah, you're freaking awesome, man. I love you so much. You always do the right thing. But what you did, yeah, there's a consequence for this. Yeah. But, but you're a great kid and I'm confident you won't do it again. Yeah, great kids.
Speaker 1 00:18:19 There's a consequence. Do some bad things. Every now you
Speaker 2 00:18:20 Criticize the deed, you criticize the action, not the person. You're not a bad kid. You're a good kid who did a bad thing. Yeah. There's a difference. And it's the same thing. As soon as I look at myself when I screw up, I don't look at myself and say, I'm a screw up or I screw up. No, I'm a great person who made a mistake, but I'm still a freaking great person with a great heart. And in the future, I'm gonna make sure I don't make that mistake again. Did
Speaker 1 00:18:39 You have someone in your life that had this kind of energy and they had that kind of self, that
Speaker 2 00:18:43 Self speak? Oh really? My mom. My mom. I can tell you, I, I'm 47 years old now. I've never seen my mom in a bad mood. I mean, she's 74 years old. I've never seen her in a bad mood. She wakes up every single day. And in her mind, the sun shining birds are singing. You know, I didn't realize, you know, she did tell me actually one time when she was in her mid thirties that she was in the bathroom just crying. 'cause she was just stressed. She had four young children all young and a lot of stuff going on. She was running. My parents owned two stores at the time that she was running and with four young children. But you'd never known it, you know, day in and day out. She looked at the positive. And I think that really helped me. 'cause I was, and I, and I, I don't think that langly, you know, I was in a house where, you know, my dad was more of a provider and not real nurturing, but he was there.
Speaker 2 00:19:26 Yeah. You know? And my mom was the nurturer. And she showed me that, you know, in the midst of any circumstance, I can have peace. You know, the reality of the matter is that's, that's just that, that's it. You know, I mean, I, I think inside of my heart, I have a piece that passes all understanding in the midst of every circumstance. I don't think I ever, people say, you never see me in a bad mood. Well, you won't. And I'll tell you why you won't, Clint. Why I haven't been in a bad mood since I was 15. People say, how do you not in a bad mood since you were 15? Well, the truth is, I've learned one thing. If you think about what you're thinking about, and if you're really thinking about positive thoughts, you can't help but think positive. But if you're thinking negative, you're gonna feel negative.
Speaker 2 00:20:05 Hear me out on this one. Yeah. Yeah. You think about this, you can't, you hear people say you can't have a good day with a bad attitude. You can't have a bad day with a good one. Well, the truth is, but when people don't understand is this, I'm gonna give you an example. If I'm was sitting around my house with you, Clint, and we're sitting having, we're sitting there just hanging out, chilling nine 30 in the morning and it, we hear a knock on my door. I'm like, oh God, that's my neighbor, Joseph. I've got three choices. I can ignore the door. Hope he doesn't see us in here or hear sitting here. I could go to the door and I could walk up like, Hey Joe, what's up man? It's good to see you, man. Thanks for stopping by. But I have my buddy Clint's over right now.
Speaker 2 00:20:39 But man, I hope to see you, you know, at the pool. Maybe tomorrow afternoon. Give him some knuckles. Yeah. Close the door. Or I could invite Joe in and say, Hey Joe, come on in buddy. I got, I'm gonna make a fresh pot of coffee. Come sit down. Now if I did that and I sat down for an hour with him, and then I came back to you, I was like, oh my gosh. That guy Joseph, he drives me up a wall. He's so negative. I cannot see him when he stops by, you'd look at me and say, you didn't have to invite him in for coffee, man. Yep. Well that's the truth. Yeah. Here's the truth, Clint. You can't control the thoughts that pop into your head, but you can control which ones you invite in for coffee. You know, I ask myself three questions with every thought that pops into my head.
Speaker 2 00:21:17 And it may sound regimented, it may sound crazy, but it works. I say, does this thought that popped into my head? Because I can't control what pops into my head, but I control what stays there. Does it make me feel good about myself? Or does it make me feel good about others? Or does it make me feel good about the future? If I can't say yes to one of those three things, why am I gonna spend time with that thought? It's not gonna move me forward. Now, if it's something you might say, well John, you can't just avoid all negative thoughts. I'll write it down 12 hours later and put it in my reminder to think about it 12 hours from now. If it's still important, 12 hours from now, it's worth thinking about. And I'm willing to put together a strategy to overcome it.
Speaker 2 00:21:51 But 12 hours later, I usually look at it. I'm like, what the f Why am I, why was I stressed about that 12 hours? It doesn't matter. And I say a lot, if it doesn't matter in five years, it shouldn't matter in five minutes type thing. Right? Yeah. And most of the things, if I ask you right now, you might have something for me, but if I said January 21st, last year in 2025, what was the worst thing that happened? You're like, I don't know. What about the 20th? I'm not sure, John. Yeah. But there was probably something in one of those two days that had you upset, had you worked up and it felt like a big deal at the time, but a year later, you can't even remember it. But it stole four hours of your day that you'll never get back. Four hours of your life, you'll never recover. Well,
Speaker 1 00:22:23 Yeah. What I've found a lot, two times, a lot of times is that the things that bother us, we don't act upon. I mean, anxiety is, you know, knowing we should do something a lot of times and just not doing it. In other words, yeah, I'm sure there are things that right now are bothering me. And if I really were honest with having that honest conversation with myself in the mirror, I'd be like, yeah, dude. But if it really meant that much, you had gone ahead and done a, B, C, you would've made the phone call removed the anxiety. So either stop worrying about it or do the thing. Right. One of the
Speaker 2 00:22:48 Two That's one of I ams in the morning. Yeah. One of my I ams is I'm a person of action. I say that every single morning. I say that every morning for 14 years. But guess what I tell myself, I'm a person of action. I'm not someone, I don't have that analysis paralysis. If I decide to do it, I'm gonna do it. I always say being successful is doing what you decided to do. Long after the mood, you decide to do it and is over. Yeah. We all know what we need to do, man. No one needs to tell you, you need to eat healthier or work out or spend more time in this area of your life. The truth is, you know what you need to do to be successful. The problem is, you come up with all these excuses as to why you don't have time or why you're not in the mood f for your mood. You just say, listen, I tell that's the only time I do have a hard time with myself. Yeah. When I'm like, I, I don't feel like it. And I never curse. People will say, I've, I've worked with you for 17 years, I've never heard you say a curse word. They don't
Speaker 1 00:23:31 Say that about me, but keep going.
Speaker 2 00:23:33 Yeah. But what, what, what I, what I do say, and I curse out loud to myself. And the only time I'll curse is when I'm say out loud to myself and I tell, I say out loud, I say, John f your feelings. And I say the word. Yeah. Why? 'cause my feelings are gonna leave me me astray.
Speaker 1 00:23:45 Have you ever, do you ever listened to Joe Rogan? You knew who Joe Rogan is?
Speaker 2 00:23:47 Oh, I know who he is. But yeah, I don't, I don't listen to Phil very
Speaker 1 00:23:49 Much. Yeah. Well he always says, if I did, if I worked out one, I felt like I had to be a, a fat piece of crap. There you go. He goes, I it Discipline is what's supposed to get us through the feelings. Feelings are gonna come and go. Feelings are great. Motivation is great. But what is it? Oh, who is the great motivational speaker? Zig Ziglar. I think he's the one that said, you know, motivation, you know, you take a shower every day and every day you've gotta find some motivation. Yeah. And so it's
Speaker 2 00:24:11 Like bathing. Yeah. Something you gotta do daily. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 00:24:13 You stink every day. You, you have to wash off the dirt and get back into it. I wrote down a couple things 'cause I write down when we talk, so I can keep my, I've got a D, HD and probably a little bit of, you know, having had a birthday next week, so I'll be 58. So I'm losing my brain. You look great
Speaker 2 00:24:26 For
Speaker 1 00:24:26 58, man. Well, thank you. But don't zoom in. If you see a picture. Two things my mom always said, and you're talking about influences. I've got my, my dad, I've got a great dad. A great mom. My mom always says this too shall pass. So one of the things that has helped keep me in the moment, there's a difference between you vent and make fun of stuff. And the moment, oh man, the car broke down, blah, blah, blah. But it doesn't switch your mood because I tell this to my kids and I, they heard my mom say it. Listen, if this is really bad, it'll pass. And if it's really good, this'll pass. And I find that that keeps, I don't mind emotions. The blips, when I went through my divorce, one of the, some of the best advice I got was, if you try to deny emotions, that's where the problem comes.
Speaker 1 00:25:08 Emotions serve a purpose. They're there to tell you something. I feel this way. So instead of sitting in the feeling and ignoring it, instead of inviting an end question, it ask questions and move on. Realize, what's it trying to teach me now? Why do I feel like I'm sad right now? Oh, what's that? Well, that's normal. Okay. That'll go away to your point. Right. It'll go away. Why do I feel so happy right now? A, B, C. And so emotions aren't bad. So you, you kind of have to address them, let it teach you the lesson, say the thing and move on. And then realize life is gonna move on tomorrow to your point, a year from now, it's gonna pass. So give it its appropriate energy. Do what you can to fix the problem. Right. Or do what you can to, to alleviate the stress. And then check the box and go on. There's other things out there. And it's hard though, in the middle of the,
Speaker 2 00:25:56 I think that's what faith comes in, man. I always say like, do your best and let God do the rest. You know, if you truly believe in, in, in a higher power, you really believe in God. You put your life in God's hands every day. You know what I'm saying? I would say I walk by faith, you know, not by sight. Yeah. And the reality of the matter is, I'm gonna do my best. I'm gonna be a good steward of the gifts God's given me, but the rest is in his hands. And I don't
Speaker 1 00:26:15 Try to, you can't see around him
Speaker 2 00:26:16 Today. Yes. And I'm not, I'm not, I don't want to. 'cause God's ways are higher and they're better than mine. And you know, and I always say, people say all the time, how are you so confident to walk through that door? I'm like, 'cause I didn't open it. I prayed that morning that my footsteps are watered by God and he's opening and closing doors. So the reality is, I ask God to open doors. No man can close close doors. No man can open. So when a door closes, I'm not hitting against it, trying to push it open. 'cause that door closed for a reason. But when a door's open, I also walk shoulders back, chin up, smile on my face through people. Like, how are you taking this chance? Well, God opened that door. And the reality of the matter is, I'm gonna walk through it confidently knowing I can do it.
Speaker 2 00:26:48 But I think that's, that's the thing is when you have that kind of faith, it changes everything. Yeah. And because you're not leaning on your own understanding. Yeah. And, and, and you're not stressed out and you're not, you're not just walking by sight all the time. When you have that faith, you can have a whole different lifestyle than somebody who is nervous all the time. Anxious all the time. I always say fear and faith can't coexist. So the truth is, you, you which you feed grows, which your starve dies. Right. So I, you gotta feed your faith and starve out your fear. You know, fear that acronym like you can fear everything and run. We can face everything and rise. But fear is also false. Evidence appearing real. And the truth of the matter is, I always say, you gotta fail the fear and do it anyway.
Speaker 2 00:27:28 The truth is, it's less and less scary every time you do it. You've ridden a rollercoaster as a kid, it was scary as heck the first time. Yeah. You didn't know when the term was coming. When the drop was coming, you were scared. But the sixth time you wrote it, it wasn't as scary. It's the same thing in life, man. You know, I mean, the reality is you've gotta feel the fear and just do it anyway. And it, it goes away over time. And people start thinking you're fearless. You're like, no, I've just stepped out in spite of fear every single time. And I realize nobody's dying. Well,
Speaker 1 00:27:52 I, I got into, I box quite a bit and for a while, and I still do when I, when I get a chance to, but you know, the, the fear of getting hit's a real thing until you realize the worst it can do is hurt a little bit. There it is. And, and whatever breaks can be fixed most of the time. I'm not saying there's not dire consequences, but to the point you kind of, you don't wanna get hit. Right. But you understand there's worse things and it, you can overcome it. It's funny you say that about faith. I think we all, you know, Jocko Wilnick, I love listening to Jocko and Jocko says he came out and did a podcast. He said, if I've made this look easy, I'm sorry. 'cause he's a very disciplined person. He goes, it's not, there's days I don't feel like it, there's days I fail.
Speaker 1 00:28:27 He goes, there's days I do not do the things I know I'm supposed to do. He goes, I post the stuff and then everybody goes, well dude, that's just who you are. He goes, it's hard sometimes for me. Yes. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's not. And the reason I bring that up is these little moments of faith that we have it, I got reminded and I'm a storyteller. I like telling stories. You got time for me. Are you sure you're good? Absolutely. I wanna making sure. 'cause you're, you're busy. You got people that answer to you make.
Speaker 1 00:28:54 But I was going through a life changing event and I was sitting on my front steps and I don't mind sharing this. I've shared it before. We get along great, great co-parenting. But when you go into a divorce after 19, 20 years and you kinda losing your world, you gotta rebrand who you are. We right in the middle of it. For a guy at least, it was a failure. You know, I failed to lead the way I was supposed to lead. So I'd sit on my, I'd go work out in the mornings at five o'clock I'd read the Bible. 'cause you know, my Bible a lot of times breaking case of emergency. But that's the way a lot of us Christians live. Yeah. But I'm sitting on the front steps and I'm praying, alright, God, here's the miracle I need. I need my da da da, I need this, I need this, I need this.
Speaker 1 00:29:30 And I did that probably for four or five days. And I think I just shared this story last week on another podcast. 'cause I do like 10 a week. And all of a sudden it's almost like a voice in my head. I know I've shared it with Karen McMahon on the divorce podcast in New York. The voice came and said, Hey, you don't get to tell the miracle work of what the miracle looks like. That's my job. And I was like, and it literally, it was a moment. 'cause I had these two songs I listened to. And he goes, it would've been, it's like Moses would've built the bridge, dude. They would've found another way. They'd have found a land, they would've found another way. And then there was no lesson in that. Yes. And it wasn't that things became any real easier after that. But I kind of stopped praying what it needed to look like, because that's not my job.
Speaker 1 00:30:14 My job is to walk across if the water parts, if he can do that, he can get me across. Right. And so that was a defining moment for me at least on what faith is. And I've struggled with it in and out. Not, you know, it, it comes hard for me. I'm, I'm, I'm hardheaded and stubborn, but I like the idea of faith is the unknown. And it's not just it, it shouldn't be just in case break in case of emergency. That that's the Exactly Right. That's not real faith. That is, that's more of a transactional relationship. That's an ATM of, of that's a magician. Yes. That's the wizard. Hey, can you wave your wand and make what I want come true. Three wishes from the hat type thing. So I love that concept. I love the, let me back up though. 'cause you've been into several markets. You've been in 17 markets or 11 markets.
Speaker 2 00:30:59 11 markets 17 years.
Speaker 1 00:31:00 Where did you grow up at? Man,
Speaker 2 00:31:01 Grew up in Baltimore. Okay. Lived there 26 years. I thought I'd lived there forever, to be candid. Right. I didn't know any better, man. I wouldn't move back there for anything. Love, still love the ravens. Still love, you know, still love the seafood, that sort of thing. I still go back at least once a year for a Ravens game. But just the culture and environment in the Southeast. I freaking love it. When
Speaker 1 00:31:18 Did you leave Baltimore? When did you, when did you
Speaker 2 00:31:20 Roll? In 2004. I was a sales rep, sales trainer, sales manager, service manager in Baltimore. Learned that aspect of the business. And I wanted to be a GM with Cintas and an opportunity. I told them, because I didn't, I was, I wasn't married, didn't have kids, you know, I'm just young and single. Right. And I could go where the opportunity was. I didn't have to wait for someone to retire. I said, I'll go anywhere in opportunity for a GM. Opens they had and they said Knoxville. Oh, I, I had never been to the southeast. I had never been to Tennessee. And I was like, Knoxville, goodness gracious. But I was 26 years old. And candidly I picked up and just moved away from my family. Moved away from everything by myself. Moved to Knoxville. And it was, you know, it was one of those things, it was one of the best experiences of my life. And I've lived in the southeast ever since. I met my wife in Knoxville, which was the best thing that came outta Knoxville. Yeah. But, you know, but really since then, I've, I went from there, from Knoxville to Charlotte. That's right. Before I left Cintas. But then with Cumulus, I went to Albany, Pensacola, Lexington, Memphis, Cincinnati, Chattanooga, Knoxville. Yeah. Now I'm in Huntsville, but I've, but I, which
Speaker 1 00:32:27 Some diverse markets, man, there's a lot of big differences in those markets.
Speaker 2 00:32:30 A lot of differences. Holy crap. But I tell you, you know what, what we're kind of getting into earlier, the one common ground is people are people. Well,
Speaker 1 00:32:37 We're gonna, let's not, let's kind of talk about that. I, and I set this conversation up with other friends. When I talk about leadership like John Ballinger, I did a great one just on oath and pledge with my buddy Eric Buchanan. And that is leadership. I've always said, and, and again I'll say it, but you can, you can take it and put it on steroids. 'cause you've done this for longer and better than I have. You know, you, you, you manage things, you lead people. Right. And so the flip side of that is, or or running parallel with that is the word culture. Yes. And culture I think is thrown around a lot. But I dare people to try to, whenever I ask somebody, what does that mean in your business? 'cause I'll have business owners say, man, I just need to build a better, build a better culture. And I go, what does that mean to you? Okay,
Speaker 2 00:33:18 I'll tell. Most people can't. Well, I'll tell you what it, it starts with the leader and it starts with their morning routine. Like I was talking about earlier. You've gotta be mentally, emotionally at your best. You can't have a down moment. People say that's not fair. You're gonna have an off day, not as a leader. They have to know that you're gonna be levelheaded and they're gonna get the same positive version of you every single day. Wow. It's a responsibility that you have to your people that they know. When they come into your office at six 30 in the morning, four in the afternoon, they're getting the same version of you. And, and so that's important. So that's why your routine's important and your thought process is important. You can't have bad days or off days. Can't have cloudy times, can't have times where you're feeling grouchy.
Speaker 2 00:33:53 It, it's, it's a big responsibility. It's not for most people. But I also think the number one reason I believe I've been successful is because I like people. You know, as I was saying to you earlier, you know, I think I've read Truit Kathy, the guy founder of Chick-fil-A, you know, people ask him the question a lot. They'll say, you know, how do, how are your people so nice? I mean, every time you go to a Chick-fil-A, people are like, my pleasure. And everyone seems like they're in a good mood. How do you, how do you make your people be so nice? I mean, it'll be great if every place was like that. He said, I don't make people be nice. He's like, I hire nice people. And I think the reality is a lot of people want to get in a leadership position 'cause they want the power.
Speaker 2 00:34:29 But if you don't like people, you can't lead people. Mm. If people get on your nerves, if human nature just gets on your nerves, you're not gonna be able to lead them effectively. It's the same reason I wanted to be an elementary school teacher. Man. I, I, I majored. I majored in elementary education. I had a minor in math. I thought I was gonna be a teacher. Why? 'cause I loved kids. But I just liked people. And I think the reality is, if you like people, you see the best in them. And you know, I think one thing that I do, and I do it in every market, I was always talk about catching people doing things right. I try to catch people doing things right and be quick to praise the smallest amount of improvement. What I mean by catching people doing things right is that way you have people that want to be on the radar in a good way, as opposed to a bunch of people that are trying to stay off the radar. You don't get a lot of just enough employees trying to just do just enough to stay off the radar. To
Speaker 1 00:35:12 Not get fired.
Speaker 2 00:35:12 Yes. That's what and that's a lot of organizations. Yeah. But how do I do that? Well number one, I'm looking for people doing things right. I'm looking to praise them. But most importantly, I ask my department heads by Friday each week to catch one person they did something. Right. Catch one person doing something. Right. This is what'll happen. I'll give you an example here in this market. Scott will see Dylan do something well this weekend. Right. He sends that to me. I'm just in the break room. I see Dylan. Hey Dylan, how's it going buddy? You know, how's your week going so far? You know, so far so good. Great. You know, I say, Hey by the way, I just wanna thank you for something you did on Saturday. Now granted, the three reasons I do it, I do this. Number one, if my department heads, if the people that are in management positions, if they're not looking for good, they might not see a lot of it.
Speaker 2 00:35:57 'cause what stands out, a lot of times when you're in a busy week and you got a lot of things going on is when people are doing things wrong. So I force my department heads to catch one person doing something right. But by me thanking Dylan, number one, Dylan's like, oh wow. Yeah, no, no problem. That's just my job. But it makes them feel good and it makes them feel appreciated. And people that are appreciated will always do more than expect him. Absolutely. So it makes him feel appreciated. But also it pours cemental in Scott's and Dylan's relationship. 'cause Dylan then knows, how did John know that? Scott must have told him, my boss must be talking good about me behind my back. So now he likes Scott more. So I've strengthened their relationship. 'cause Scott's talking good about him behind his back. I'm making Dylan feel good about himself. I'm forcing my department heads. And I say this a lot, you know, how do you know if someone needs a pat in the back? Clint? Well,
Speaker 1 00:36:39 They're awake and
Speaker 2 00:36:40 Alive. Check their pulse. Yeah. They're breathing. They need it. Absolutely. Percent. Some people need it more than others. Yeah. But we all need it. And the truth is, I, I look at people as balloons and if you got a helium balloon over here in the studio and they'll sitting up here in the corner, it might be up there for two days. It might be up there for a week. But over time it's gonna come down and be laying on the ground. And what you would do is what ate the thing, pop it, throw it, throw it away. Right. But there's nothing wrong with the balloon. That balloon that's laying on the ground, if you put it on the helium machine shoots back up. The reality of the matter is people are like balloons. And as leaders we're the helium. And, and, and, and if you want people really soar into their full potential, it's up to you to catch them doing things.
Speaker 2 00:37:18 Right. I I, I like to say that I believe in people and I let 'em know that I like them, that I believe in them, that I'm excited about their future. And you know, people will let themselves down before they wanna let me down because they, they don't mind letting themselves down, but they know that I like them and they know that I believe in them 'cause I do. And the reality is they don't wanna let me down. And that's how you create a culture where people are really trying their best and people feel appreciated and people enjoy coming to,
Speaker 1 00:37:41 You know, so I've, I've wrote, I wrote some things down over here 'cause you're, you, you bring up some good stuff. One of the things is, I just, it's, it's crazy. These, this happens all the time in podcasting. We'll be talking about something that is relevant right now. I just had this conversation where I came from before I came here with a company and they asked me to talk to someone who is a, a a sales person, a floor person. And they, they wanted me 'cause I have a velvet hammer sometimes, but they wanted me to talk to them about some, some stuff on the floor, floor awareness type stuff. And so I did about a month ago and I just brought it up to them. I said, it looks like they're doing better. I'm not here every day. What do y'all think? They said, do doing much better.
Speaker 1 00:38:18 I'm like, who has told her or him that way? If anybody's listening who has told them that they're doing better, they notice and they're like, I go, I, that shouldn't come from me. That should come from the y'all. I'm happy to do it, but I'm a third party kind of person. Exactly. So to your point, and it's not that, that leaders a lot of times don't have the best intentions stuff if you're not used to it, that muscle memory. You've gotta develop that. I've gotta be able to look for not only the opportunities to sit down and give you air quote, critical feedback. Right. But also the critical affirmations that are just as important, which is the other side of that. And then
Speaker 2 00:38:54 Exactly. Right.
Speaker 1 00:38:55 Yeah. I I think that's just a big one. I'm gonna give you a great, another example. So I, I'll use Kenard as my example. 'cause he was learning to be a manager as I was learning to be a salesperson. And I'm a terrible employee. I'm a great sales. Oh, I just, I would, I'm a great employee about 40% of the time. And the rest of time I'm just, thank God I make people money because they would not tolerate my, my stubbornness. That being said, I was married about three, four years. I'd been working at talk maybe a year and a half, two years. And I was doing really well. I just, it it was a good fit for me. Talk radio at that time was blowing up, especially in Chattanooga. And I was, it's just a good fit sometimes in life. You just find it, man.
Speaker 1 00:39:34 Yes. Like this is, this is my jam. Right. So I get home one night and I can't remember, I think she was maybe, I don't know if we'd had her second kid or not yet. Anyway, there'd been a card sent to my wife from Kindred to her with a gift card for dinner or something like Olive Garden, whatever it was. But the gist of the card was, hey, just wanna let you know, Clint works a lot of long hours. I know that. Just wanted to let you say thank you for lend lending him to us as much as you do you guys go have a good date night on us. Just wanna let you know he's, he's a great asset to the company. Wow. But thank you for being, letting him do this. It means a lot. And I was
Speaker 2 00:40:09 Like, that's incredible. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:40:10 And so he, I think he did that a couple times and you like to think I'm the only one I know he did that to other people as well. And I don't know who taught him that. Some of this is learned, right. You hear somebody will hear this and go I'm gonna implement that. Right? But it's the, having the fertile soil to learn how to be a better leader is just as important. 'cause you've learned everything. You just didn't naturally have All these little things you do right. Over time, you are open territory for it.
Speaker 2 00:40:35 Well, that's, that's the one advantage that I have over other people is because, because I've been in these 11 markets, I get a restart each time. Yeah. I make mistakes. I do some really great things and I make some really dumb mistakes. But guess what I can do? Yes. I go to the second marking, I get a restart. I bring all the stuff that works again, and, and I reset. And people say, now, do you think you have flaws? I have plenty of flaws and I'm sure I will identify with them over the next year and I will work on them and fix them. But the truth is right now, you know, people will say, you know, well, you seem perfect. Well, I'm not very far from it. But the truth is, you're right. I'm not, I don't have anything right now. Because if I did, shame on me. People say, well, I've got a lot of things I'm working on. You know what, man? You should have had 'em fixed by now. If you identify these two months ago, why are you still working on 'em? You're not a work in progress. You're a work in stagnation. You know, you, you pro work in progress means you're progressing.
Speaker 1 00:41:21 Grave is just mention. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:41:22 If you, if you know something you need to fix now, get it fixed. The reality is you should be humble enough to realize in the next 90 days, you're gonna probably realize one or two more things you need to fix, but you need to fix them. Too many times we try to say that. And it's a nice little thing. I'm a work in progress. Nobody's perfect. But you're, you're giving yourself permission to fail. And, and, and you're trying to say you're a work in progress. But if I ask you what progress have you made in the last 30 days? Little to none. Should it
Speaker 1 00:41:45 Be new problems basically? Yes. New things. You, it's funny you say that. So are you okay with another story? Of course you got time. So this will be funny. And so I just gave him credit and he knows what story's coming, but I'm gonna use Kenard again. Again, he was learning. I'm learning, right? Yeah. He's been on my podcast several times and I've shared this. It's one of my funniest stories of all time. So he came, I'll think about it. I might edit this out. It just, I've had this conversation with him on a podcast. He came up 'cause he was trying to find ways to do to motivate people. Carrot and stick. And he was, he, he was doing really well. He was learning. But he came up with what he called the Halfass award. Have you ever heard about this?
Speaker 2 00:42:19 Never. Oh dude.
Speaker 1 00:42:20 Okay. So he actually had a little trophy made and it was the back end of a a donkey, the half ass award. It said it on there. So every month, if you ended up last hitting goal, 'cause goals really only track backwards. You can't fix a goal. True. Right. So, but goals can help you figure out what you're doing wrong. So you can improve them in the future. Right. But he would award that to, would hit last in the sales meeting, which by the way can be very demoralizing. Oh yeah. If you're always hitting last and you
Speaker 2 00:42:51 Could only do that 20 years ago. Nowadays you have HR all over.
Speaker 1 00:42:53 Well now, but then you had to see,
Speaker 2 00:42:56 So
Speaker 1 00:42:56 I've gotta finish. So you would have to, the, whoever won the half ass last month would give it to whoever. Well if you've hit last every month, three or four months, you're just keeping the half ass award on your desk. And after about three or four months, I think he saw I, we were all like, Hey man, this is, I don't think this is having, having
Speaker 2 00:43:14 The desired effect, but
Speaker 1 00:43:15 Yes. But only reason I bring that up. I did a good thing from him and a thing that didn't work out. Being willing to try the new things. That's it is now. He would never do that stuff in a million years. He wouldn't doing that. He wouldn't have done that six months after he tried it the first time. Right. But in his brain is, I'm going to find ways to get the very best of everybody. Some who are the Michael Jordans, some who are the Dennis Rodman's. Everybody's gonna be the best version of themselves and I'm gonna try it. And he was willing to fail at something. That was
Speaker 2 00:43:46 A great pivot into one thing when it comes to culture. One thing I had to realize is this, if I have a team of seven people and I ranked him one to 10 and I had two threes, two fours, a five, a seven, and an eight. If you're not careful, you want them all to be tense. Yep. The problem is it's not gonna happen. And you, if your goal and people say, how do you sustainably grow your market every single year and every economy and every time, how do you keep growing? Because all I try to do is make my threes, fours, I try to make my fours fives, try to make my six to sevens. The reality is meet them where they are and have each individual and realize they each play their own role. But each made, let each one of them get better. The whole organization grows every single year. And, and that's just the way to do it. But most managers just get frustrated 'cause they want everyone to be at eights and nines. Why
Speaker 1 00:44:35 Aren't you Tom? Well, damns Tom's tom, I'm gonna be the best Clint. Yes. And not, you can't have a team of Michael Jordan.
Speaker 2 00:44:40 And as long as I make Clint 10% better than he was last year, the whole organization grows by 10%. And you look at our freaking hero. But the key is, you know, and I think that's another thing too, is realizing the role that people play. You know, I think a good to great book was one of the best books. Love that. Yeah. Just getting right people on the bus, getting 'em in the right seat, getting 'em in the right role. You know, realizing, you know, what role they play within your organization. And I think sometimes, you know, managers get frustrated and the reason they become poor leaders is because they have a, a certain version of this makes a perfect employee. And the truth is, you gotta meet people where they are and help them become just a little bit better. And I think that's something that else that I do is I don't just care about I my sales meetings. I have five sales meetings a week. People say, how do you have five sales meetings a week? Hey, wait,
Speaker 1 00:45:24 Hold on John. Yeah. How in the hell do you have five sales meetings a week?
Speaker 2 00:45:28 But you, you know me man, I I I've always got something i I to say and it's, it's some way to be better. But the truth is, I would say 50% of those sales meetings are sales focused. And in terms of, you know, overcoming objections, how to connect better with people, those kind of things. Do you believe in role
Speaker 1 00:45:42 Playing?
Speaker 2 00:45:43 I don't do it as often anymore. Early on in the first 60 to 90 days of someone's employment, they're gonna do a ton of role plays. Yeah. It's the only way to get better. Yeah. But I'll tell you what, there's nothing no faster way to demoralize a tenure team than to make them role play on a regular basis. If they got it down, they got it down. You know what I'm saying? Like, I, once they got it, they got it. I'm not one of those people that role play for the sake of it. But the truth is, I say half of my sales meetings are about life, man. The stuff that we've talked about today. Yeah. You, you can't be going through hell in your marriage, in your finances mentally and emotionally and be at your best at work. So, so much of what I talk about in our sales meetings is really just the kind of stuff you'd hear in a to Robinson seminar.
Speaker 2 00:46:20 You know, it's, it's helping these people become the best versions of themselves. They're picking up the phone for the next hour. If they're doing that in a good place mentally and emotionally, they're gonna set more appointments connected with more people. If they're just going through the motions and making calls for an hour. 'cause they have to, but they just had an argument with their spouse. They're stressed out about things. They're anxious and nervous and or angry. Their call boss's gonna suck, man. So the truth is, yeah, it's a, it's a big thing for me. I almost view myself as a life coach as well as a, a leader. Alright.
Speaker 1 00:46:50 I gotta play some, I wanna play some kind of fast round robin with you. Sure. But I want can I, I, I'd like telling stories. Can I cheer another one? I think you want. Absolutely. You're a cold call guy. I grew up when, when, and literally I would park my car on one side of the street with my business cards and my little notebook and a stupid tie. Yes. Because I looked like a minion with no neck. And I would go knock on doors and I would go down to one block, I'd cross the street, come back up. Absolutely. And then I would drive down to the next, the next block. Right. Or make phone calls. And back then all we had was phone books, ladies and gentlemen. We didn't have Google. I'd call up and say, Hey, this is Clint Powell over here at Talk Radio 1 0 2 0.3.
Speaker 1 00:47:22 Love to talk to somebody that's in charge of your marketing or advertising because we didn't have LinkedIn. There it is. I couldn't do, you know, those connections One calls unless there's a referral. Anyway, I want you to put yourself in a young sales person's position. I go through, and I still say this, the radio training for sales to me is the best radio training if you go through it the right way. 'cause it is, it can translate into any sales industry. I think sales training is especially co is just the best. Anyway, I go through the sales training. A lot of stuff you think you already know you gotta get better at. Then you're learning a bunch.
Speaker 1 00:47:54 They put me on my own. And so for the first week, and I'll tell you about some tracking numbers I think you'll like in a minute too. This is gonna be fun. We, I'm glad you're hanging out a little bit. I, first week I go in the conference room, use the conference room because I'm embarrassed. There's all these seasoned people out there and I hear 'em smooth this silk. It's like listening to a good blues singer. I'm like, I don't know how the hell they're doing that. I'm 29 or 30. I'm like, oh my God, I'm in the, the arena. So I go in the conference room and I finally, after about a hundred calls that week, man, I'm okay. I go out and knock on groove doors, come back, I'm like, I got my, I got my groove on. Go back out and sit out in the cubicle.
Speaker 1 00:48:30 And I, this is a true story. I go back out and I'm in the cubicle. So at the Talk Radio ranch, you know, when you come up the, where the talent sits now, I guess used to be the talk radio cells upstairs. Yep. You know the back steps. Yes. Come in. Well when you walk in, there used to be a cubicle there and a cubicle on the corner. Now eventually I got the good cubicle in the back by myself. Anyway, I was in that cubicle in the corner, second one over. And I sit down and I pick up the phone and my brain went to straight mush when I, when the guy answered, 'cause I said, Hey, this is Clint with talk radio over here at Citadel bro, or Radio Chattanooga. I'd like to talk to you somebody about their advertising. And they go, that's me.
Speaker 1 00:49:08 And I'm so used to getting gatekeepers. Right. I'm ready for the next thing. Yeah. Dude, I freaked out and here's, I'm going to kind of paraphrase, but this is pretty accurate of what I said. Oh great. That's that's fantastic. Well, I, like I said, I, I work in, in radio and I don't know if you're spending any money on marketing advertising, but I would really, I mean I'd like to come talk to you about radio and where you could probably spend it better. 'cause we, we have some packages and stuff over here and the guy who, who didn't work there much longer than I did, he, he left after about a month or two, I look over to my right and you got the cubic wall and I just see his head peek around the corner and smile and gimme a thumbs up. And I am sitting here and I go and, and he goes, who are you with again?
Speaker 1 00:49:55 And I went, US one oh one and phone. It's, I just grab my shit and go back into the conference room and realize maybe I'm not ready for prime time. So there was somebody out there that was going, this guy's having a stroke on the phone, man. But I take pride in that now. 'cause that was, you gotta go. That's earning your bones, man. That is, yes, a hundred percent. That is until you've come in with your shirt being sweaty from out cold, you know, cold calling on July day in the south with the town the, by the way, I don't know if it was you, but whoever made the move to not make 'em wear ties. Good call. I don't know who that was, but that happened after I left. That was a,
Speaker 2 00:50:32 Was that you? No, that was not me. Got I, I'm a, you know, I'm a shirt and tie kind of guy. Say once in while. Yeah, I'll do. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 00:50:38 Do you make Andy wear
Speaker 2 00:50:38 Ties? I did until I, my first three years here. Yeah. But when I came back about three years ago, back in the end of 2022, early 2023, he wasn't, and I wasn't gonna make him go back to that. I was just,
Speaker 1 00:50:48 You know what? So I, when I left the day, I left talk radio after my, my first stint. I came back for a second stint for about two or three years and managed the sports sales stuff. I laid ties on the back of all the chairs because I'm not gonna wear ties. And Andy went around and picked most of them up. So a lot of the ties he was
Speaker 2 00:51:05 Wearing Yes. They were your ties. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:51:06 He was just walking around behind me like a breadcrumb. That's
Speaker 2 00:51:08 My thoughts with, with, with dress code. Okay. And, and this is, this is my opinion. You have to, I tell people this all the time. Say, what should I wear to work? I'm like, what would you wear to an interview? Now that's different for different people. Yeah. Yeah. But if you wouldn't wear it to an interview, don't wear it to the office in an interview is the best version of you, Clint. When you go into an interview, you're trying to put the best version of you forward. That's all I'm asking for every single day. I want the best version of you. If you think that's a polo and that's what you'd wear to an interview, then wear a polo. But if you think that's a shirt and tie a blazer and a button down, whatever it is. But I want you to feel like the best version of you every day because that affects the way you talk and communicate. And it affects your confidence, your comfort
Speaker 1 00:51:44 Level. Yeah. Comfort level.
Speaker 2 00:51:45 So I think that that's the big thing is I tell people all the time, if you wouldn't wear it to an interview, you don't wear it to work.
Speaker 1 00:51:49 Alright, so let me ask you this and then I'm gonna do the round robin thing. I promised a minute ago, do go back on your sales career. Sure. And you gotta have a story or, or some or a time when you remembered doubting yourself a little bit. In other words, I went to
Speaker 2 00:52:02 A cell call. Tell, I'll tell you this is, that's
Speaker 1 00:52:04 Great.
Speaker 2 00:52:04 This is, this is the best man. I was literally at Cintas and I was 22 years old. Youngest on the team. I think Mark was 28, 29. But everyone else was in the thirties and forties. There's are seasoned reps and I'm the young guy on the team. And, but truthfully, I was the highest performer and I'd only been there a year. And we got a new boss and his name was Matt Steinle. And everybody knew Matt was tough, you know, and you know, we had a great guy, guy named Dave LUTs who hired me and really easygoing dude. Matt comes in and he's changing everything. He came down to our sales pit and the six of us down there making phone calls. And he just walks right in the middle of our sales session. He grabs my planner outta my hand. And he goes,
Speaker 2 00:52:48 Friday, two o'clock, you know, a BC company you're with, you're, you're meeting with? I said, yeah, whatcha doing? After that? I said, well I'm probably gonna do some cold calls. He's like, no, I wanna see something on your calendar after two o'clock. We don't stop working. You know, after two o'clock on Friday. I said, fair enough. You know, okay. And I thought, well that's kind of rude 'cause he didn't do it to anybody else. Right. So then he posted to my calendar and he goes, okay, it looks like next Tuesday you're eight o'clock at h and s Bakery. He said, great. He said, I'll meet you there. And I thought, what? Yeah. So I'm like, why, why does he wanna meet me? Like at, at an appointment? He's just not doing this to anybody else. So it is what it is. You know, of course that weekend I can't even enjoy the football games that weekend.
Speaker 2 00:53:22 'cause all I'm thinking about is I got a ride along with a new mean boss on Tuesday morning, Monday, I can't sleep. I get to h and s bakery that morning. We walk in, thank God the guy I'm supposed to meet with, he's not there yet. I'm like, woo, you know off. So Matt looks at me and goes, well great. When's your next appointment? I said, 10. He goes, great, let's do some cold calls. We walk down the, we, we literally walk around the sh the, it was similar to this like a business park. We walked into another business. I walk in, I swear I've been doing this over a year. I'm a great sales rep. I've done a million cold calls. He's behind me. And I walk up and I said, this girl sitting at the front desk, I said, hi, my name's, my name's John.
Speaker 2 00:54:02 I couldn't remember my name. Clint. Clint. I was so nervous of this guy behind me behind, I couldn't even think of my name. So yes, that was a total thing. And he said, and I left and he, I walked out and he's kinda laughing in the parking lot. He's like, John, you do a couple cold calls, warm up and we'll go do some more together. He's like, that wasn't you, you know, but it was cool. But later I found out, he told me about six months later, I asked him about that time, 'cause we gotta know each other a little bit better. Yeah. And he had fired four of those, the four of the other reps within the next five months. He said, John, he said it was very quick to analyze you and Nate were probably the only people worth having on that team.
Speaker 2 00:54:35 He said, I just wanted to see what you had. He said, I wasn't gonna bother harass, like working with the rest of those reps. He's like, 'cause they were losers. And I thought, wow. So he's picking on me. 'cause he guess he thought I was a winner. But the truth of the matter is that was, but it was humbling at the time. But most importantly, it's helped me as a leader to realize when I'm asking something, a role play in front of me when I'm doing a ride along with them having a little more grace. Yeah. Because I remember, you know, I knew what to say when Matt Stangle was with me. I couldn't remember my name.
Speaker 1 00:55:01 I, I, I mentioned it when you were talking. It's literally when you're a good person and everything, police pull behind you go, do I have a dead body in my trunk? Right. You know, do I have cocaine? Yes. Under my front seat. I don't think I murdered anybody last night, but they're behind me. So what does that mean? Alright, let's do this. I already asked you about role play, we talked about dress codes, reports. I just wanna get some, some round robin. And the reason I'm bringing this up is, are you, what kind of reporting do you all have? Do y'all have and not just in your now, what do you believe in? Is it every day? Is it every week? What does you believe when it comes to reporting in sales reps?
Speaker 2 00:55:34 I don't believe it should be more than once a week. People that wanna monitor everyday activity. To me, you got the wrong people working for you. But you do, you should have in my, in my opinion, it's a Friday. Yeah. You don't start your week off this way. You end the week. You look at it that Friday and say, let's talk about what you did this week. Let's look at your week and let's talk about productivity. What, what did you accomplish? If they sold something that weekend, did something. I don't care what you did, man. What you did worked. But if it didn't, it's my job to figure out what could we have done differently over the last five days to generate some new business. Well, the
Speaker 1 00:56:04 Reason I bring it up is a lot of, a lot of managers don't, don't get the leading part of this. They use it as a tool. And they don't use it as, I mean, they don't use it as a tool. They use it as a way to control. And I think, and I've said this before, if you, if you expect reports every day or just to check boxes or you've, you've only had three meetings the last, last three days, but you sold two of 'em and made X, y, z at some point you're gonna make good salespeople, liars. 'cause they're gonna Exactly right. I, and it, it's one of the things that forced it to me. They, there was this learning curve and I used it as an excuse. I would've been that way with it. You would've again loved part of me and hated part of me. But what it did for a lot of good people is like, I've gotta put stuff on my list. So we, we consumed a lot of our time with, I don't have my 20
Speaker 2 00:56:46 Too much creative writing. You were wasting your time trying to I
Speaker 1 00:56:48 Was and not out being a pony soldier and out fighting in the field. Right. Which is what I was like, I told 'em, if y'all get me the hell outta the building, y no one will ever regret having me on their team. You make me sit in the building and give you a bunch of reports every single day. I am gonna, I I'll be pulling pain in your ass.
Speaker 2 00:57:04 Right. And that's a huge pain in your ass. And that's why each Friday, you know, we, we review the previous week and we look at your plan for the next week. Make sure you have a plan. If you don't, it's my job as your leader to sit down and help you put together a plan and make sure next week you're excited to wake up Monday morning. Do y'all still do
Speaker 1 00:57:16 Cold calls? Yes'. Cold calls a big part. 'cause
Speaker 2 00:57:19 We do two mornings a week for one hour. So two one hour sessions calls.
Speaker 1 00:57:22 Yes. Okay. Do y'all, do you still have people that go knock on doors? Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 00:57:25 I don't know. But you, but you can't close an a weird world.
Speaker 1 00:57:27 Y'all
Speaker 2 00:57:28 Are what people are talking about the phones. Do you like to do the phones? Nobody likes to do the freaking phones, but if you wanna be, I mean, but the truth is you can't close an appointment. You don't have no matter how good you are. So you gotta set your appointments on the phones. You got, you got an hour on the phones, you set three appointments, you do it twice a week, you got six appointments. Man. If you set six good appointments with six business owners in this area, the truth of the matter is this advertising sales is this simple. It's me asking you, Clint, do you think if more people knew you, more people would choose you? Well, yeah, probably. Okay. That's why I'm here man. I wanna, I wanna introduce you to thousands of more people. It's not here, but that's it though man. Yeah. Yeah. Like if you think more people need, more people choose you, I'm gonna ask you why and when you tell me why, I'm like, absolutely dog. Hey,
Speaker 1 00:58:03 You run the commercial. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:58:04 Well it's an awareness issue. Yeah. Yeah. The reality of the matter is right now only about 10% of the people here know who you are and you've got a good business, a sustainable business. But the truth is, can you imagine if we doubled your awareness even at your current response rate? We double your business. How much of
Speaker 1 00:58:17 What you do? 'cause I found this when I got to know more about business and, and sales. 'cause you go, you evolve as a sales person and as a business person. I found myself. And that's kind of when I left to go do the billboard thing and started the marketing thing. After that, I would get them to call me with questions that had nothing to do with marketing or advertising. I had a, a good conversation with one of my better clients. His name was Glenn. He owned a a, a communication electronics. We did a remote there. And the reason I'll bring it up is you'll be able to relate to this. We did a big remote. His office was on am and it used to be over by the Burger King on a Nicole. It's something else of course now. 'cause it was right when Next Tail and Sprint were merging.
Speaker 1 00:58:56 Okay. And it was that, that mishmash of, is it a phone? Is it a radio stuff? Right. We did a remote over there with Sport Talk. And this of course was Dr. B and Quake and everybody and I look at Glen, we're 30 minutes in and the place is packed. 'cause they did it Sport talk radio, you guys do a great remote. And we did back in the day too. And I go up and say, how's it going? He goes, well a lot of people, nobody, nobody's buying anything. And I got worried. So I started walking around. I'm like, well, let me see what's happening. He had brought in extra help. There was five people there and a rep from not Nashville or something. All of them were behind the counter waiting on people to come bring them stuff. And I walked up to him, I said, have you, where's your people at?
Speaker 1 00:59:33 He goes, they're waiting up at the counter. I said, put three or four of 'em out here on the floor. Right. And man, it was literally within 20, 30 minutes. The reason I bring that up is a lot of times business owners didn't know that advertising won't fix bad mindsets, bad habits, bad systems. You can have the best widget in the world and you can do great advertising. And if I bring a bunch of people to you, but there's, there's gunk in the machine. Advertising doesn't fix that. But yet you get held accountable as radio. And that was a frustrating thing. And I think that's why I started helping people figure that part of it out. Because advertising in a bad company, it's just gonna bring more disappointment sometimes if you don't fix that. Does that make sense? Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:00:09 It it is, it it is true. It's almost like sometimes I have to tell the reps, when you're dealing with somebody who is not a good leader, who doesn't have a good culture and the environment, or do we really wanna send our listeners there? I mean, because the reality is expectation. Yeah. Well yeah, because we, we can bring 'em in, but it's up to them to bring them back. And if they don't have an environment where they're gonna create a great experience for, for that new potential customer, a person's not gonna come back. You know, so you, you gotta, you can't just put anybody on the air. You know, you really have to. And I think that's, that's a big deal.
Speaker 1 01:00:36 But I bet your sales reps have become more consultants too. I would imagine you've got some really good seasoned reps in there. I would bet It's phenomenal if you asked all of them. Everybody's have a client where they call 'em and say they don't ask questions about advertising. A lot of times they'll call 'em and say, Hey, let ask you this. Right. What would you do? Because you form that relationship. At least it happened for me. And I can't imagine it's changed that much. There was nothing real special about me. You folks have got the same respect and trust from your clients. They're asking 'em other questions now.
Speaker 2 01:01:03 That's it. Yeah. I mean, I say that all the time. If they don't see you as a consultant, that they're not asking you about anything other than radio and digital, what'd you sell? You're probably don't have the relationship that you think it's probably a lot more transactional than it should be. Yeah. You know, and I think people don't realize that is, you know, that is the essential part about being a seller is that there has to be a relationship formed where they trust you. But you know what I always say, people don't care how much you know, they know how much you care. I ask people all the time, I'm like, Hey, that guy that you meet with, is he married? I think so. You think so? I mean, how many kids does he have? I dunno if he has kids. How do you tell me you have a great relationship with this person, you know, this person. If you can't even answer basic questions for me, this client's been a client of yours for a year. You should, you should be able to answer about 40 questions right now.
Speaker 1 01:01:45 I had a client a lot go back before the internet worlds. We had, we had emails of course, but he was a boating guy. He loved boating. And I wish I could remember his name. He didn't spend a ton of money with me, but I knew he loved boating. He spent money for like three or four months and he backed off. But every couple months, if I ran across a boating article, I'd send it to
Speaker 2 01:02:01 Him.
Speaker 1 01:02:02 That's it. And about six, seven months later, he came back and had a little bit of a budget for some campaign. And I hadn't heard, he had never responded to any of 'em. And I said, man, it's good to hear from him. He goes, well hell, you send me articles on boats every month. He goes, I have no idea he was even getting them even
Speaker 2 01:02:15 Getting them. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:02:16 Real quick. Do you, is part of what you do help your salespeople know their number? In other words, how important is it for you for salespeople to treat their business like a business inside your business and take their numbers seriously and their systems and processes? Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 01:02:32 Yes. I I'm, I'm much different than most managers that way. Okay. Okay. And even me and Deanna are, are a director of sales is much different. She's a spreadsheet person. She, they know exactly what their billing is, what right now, what it was last year, this time, what their goals are. My reps in other markets that I don't have a DOS like that. I don't even give them a monthly goal. Why? Why? Because I, my goal is for you to retain your current business and to sell new business. It, the, the numbers will take care of themselves. I can give you, lemme give you an example, Clint. Okay. Your goal is 60 grand. Right? Okay. You usually do between 55 and 60 grand. Okay.
Speaker 2 01:03:07 You can feel great about yourself when you came in at 62 grand this month. Oh, Clint did his great job, Clint. Now Clint literally had one car deal that spent 10 grand unexpected. He really had 52,000 in billing. Yeah. But at 62 he looks like a hero. Right? Well, on the other hand, Clint, you could have had literally 57,000 in billing. But someone who you've had on that spends eight grand a month for this month took a month off maybe staffing purposes, health purposes. Now you're at 58 and you feel like, oh God, I missed my goal. My goal was 60 and I fell short. You didn't fall short dog. Yeah. You actually were, you were at what, you were actually at 66,000 with that 8,000. That 8,000 wasn't your fault. But coming back next month, I don't want you feeling like a failure this month because you didn't hit your $60,000 goal. The reality is you have 66,000 in billing. You've done a great job. So the truth is, I don't want to let somebody be measured by a certain number. And, and, and, and the goal something your manager may stop.
Speaker 1 01:03:59 Do you ever use the numbers? Do you ever say this is a number or do you just,
Speaker 2 01:04:02 The number that I have up on the board of the conference room is their new business. Oh,
Speaker 1 01:04:06 Okay. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2 01:04:07 Yeah. You know why? 'cause if, because if you're not, because, because honestly, if you're not growing, you're shrinking. You are gonna have attrition no matter how great of a rep you are, no matter what kind of results you get. Decision makers change people's, people's ideas and strategies change. If, if you're growing, if you're adding new business all the time, as long as you're taking care of your current customers and making sure there's not too much coming out the bottom and you're taking care of this clients and getting results, the results will equal renewals results will also give you referrals. So that's good to take care of your current customers. But the truth of the matter is, as long as you're adding new business in, you will continue to grow. But too many sellers, they see themselves too much as consultants. Yeah. And they have their customer base and they're just trying to tap their same customers over and over and over. But over time it will dry up. The, the, the, the secret sauce is, is the one part the sellers don't like is the sale. It it, the hardest part is generating new business. And if you can get a sales team that's generating new business on a regular basis, your organization will always grow.
Speaker 1 01:05:01 And it, and that is to me was the challenge. You know, and I, and again, I I was surrounded by some really good people that were pouring into me and I was very blessed to have it. But they would tell me, Hey, when you get to be successful, air quote, start hitting, making money and, and air quote, you have arrived. Your challenge is gonna be the balance of don't let yourself become only transactional with current clients where the only time they see is when you need their money. Gotta stay in touch and going to get the new business. Because if, you know, if you turn off the, the, the engines on the plane at 30,000 feet, it goes down basically. So you're gonna have to learn to walk that balance. And we were using time blocks before time block was, I didn't know what time blocks were. And then somebody explained it to me 15 years ago. I'm like, oh hell yeah, we were doing that. I had to learn to do that. And this three hours is phone calls. These three hours are this day I'm gonna go talk to current clients. Right. Those two days I'm gonna go try to find new clients. We were doing that. But it becomes a, literally, it becomes a juggling act.
Speaker 2 01:05:55 But if you don't require reps to go after new business, they won't. Yeah. I've learned that on every team. If you allow them to do what they want, that's pain. They stay in their comfort zone. Of course. You know what I'm saying? And that sort of thing. But so, so the truth is, it's only two ways to grow your business. Have your current customers buy more or add new customers or both. But you don't think that
Speaker 1 01:06:10 You'll go back to, you mentioned you went
Speaker 2 01:06:11 As a manager, you only have to make 'em do the new business. They'll take care of their current clients. So that's where you have to push 'em outta their comfort zone into their growth zone. And you've gotta push them to make sure that they're generating new prospects and new business. So
Speaker 1 01:06:23 There was a guy and he, he's passed away since then. I won't say his name. I became friends with him back in. I was trying a different career and I was, yeah, I was not great at it for about four months, but that's okay. I met this great guy in it. And we're about to wrap up. I know you got stuff to do. We're about to wrap up. But, so I met this great guy and he was in the window business. He's a broker. He had like 15 different brands. It was right after the crash of oh 8, 0 9. Yeah. And I'm meeting him in probably oh nine ish before I came back to sit on, on my second run, I think in 20 10, 20 11, whatever. And I'm talking to him and I'm like, Hey man, he lived right outside of Atlanta. I was up in Chattanooga.
Speaker 1 01:06:58 Tell me about what your business is. And I start having conversations. I like having conversations with people. And he goes, lemme tell you something that oh 8 0 9 has taught me. He goes, I have 15 brands. He goes, I was making all my money from three, so I focused on the three. I didn't worry about the other 12. He goes, so when the market crashed, when my three big ones, Anderson or the other one had to pull back or cancel or stop buying products or start selling pro, I had no relationships with these people over here. 'cause I had not pursued, to your point, I'd not had the muscle memory of what it's like to go hustle for the next new relationship. I'd start the new, he goes, man, he goes, I I swear I'd never do it again. He goes, every I'm, every day get up. Part of my day is to go meet new people, to talk about them with a new brand. Yes. Because I can't have all my eggs in that one basket. If they, if attrition's real, I better hope nobody ever decides to go a different direction. That's it. And that's the le But he learned it by, you know, taking a 400,000 pay cut. Yeah. I mean, you know, you go, you, you remember that time everybody was, you know, but
Speaker 2 01:07:58 That's, I remind the sellers once a month. I say, take away your three largest accounts. Could you still pay all your bills? And if you can't, you're in trouble. Wow. That's a great, that's what you gotta look at. Be large accounts. You need to be able to pay all your bills and be comfortable with all but your three biggest clients. Because the truth of the matter is at some point, any, any given one of them, no, no, no accounts, you'll be able to make your account list. 'cause if they, they can, they can break your account list. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:08:21 Whew. That's a big one too. 'cause scale, I say this all the time, the number one danger for sales reps is success. Because it convinces you, you've done all you need to do. And your is gonna be that way forever. Yep.
Speaker 2 01:08:30 And comfort turns into complacency. If you're not careful, tell people all the time, people so badly wanna get comfortable, like, don't get comfortable. Greatness isn't found in your comfort zone. You know, you, as soon as you get comfortable, like when I get comfortable in life, I hear alarm bells going off. Like warning, warning, warning. Like greatness isn't found in your comfort zone. You gotta step outta your comfort zone into your growth zone. That groove turns into a rut. That comfort turns to complacency. And then you think you're in a comfortable groove. And then you end up a couple weeks later, a couple months later in a complacent rut. You don't know how you got there. It's because you didn't step outta your comfort zone. And I think that's the the biggest thing that winners do. But winners don't try to get comfortable. They realize that, that there's, there's nothing great there.
Speaker 2 01:09:06 And you gotta step out in, into your growth zone. And you gotta fail. But you gotta fail. It's, you're gonna fail, but you gonna fail is like your what your first attempt in learning. That's okay. It's, I always say this is why people think I'm fearless sometimes because I, I don't fail. Because the truth is, I either what succeed and thank God I took the chance or I learn. 'cause if I learn from it, it's not really failure. I just learned, guess what? That didn't work. But I'm gonna readjust, tweak it and try again. More experience than I was last time. And guess what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna try again. And if I don't succeed, I'm gonna learn again. But the truth is, if you look at life as a chance, you're gonna take Clint, you're gonna succeed or you're gonna fail. You're like, oh God, let me, let me do an now.
Speaker 2 01:09:44 Let me analysis. Let put it on the scale. You know? Now if I said, listen, I got a risk, I need you to take you. Either you're gonna succeed or you're gonna learn a lot. You're like, well, well, okay, well neither one sounds too bad. Let's do it. Why? If it succeed or learn, guess what? You'll do it if it succeed or fail. You may, you may get scared and you back off. And I think if you really look at failure as the first attempt in learning and you really look at it that way, and I have to say every day, why do I say every morning, say to my kids every day, today's gonna be the best day of your life so far. Why? Because this is the most experienced, the most educated, the best version of you that's ever faced the day before. Well, you
Speaker 1 01:10:21 Have merit. It's also the only one you're guaranteed. Yeah. But you,
Speaker 2 01:10:23 But you have merit and optimism. Today's gonna be the best day of your life so far. Yeah. I know. Tomorrow's gonna be even better, Clint. You know why? Yeah. Because I'll be one day better than I was today. One day more experienced. I'll never be. I mean, I say this a lot. I'll never be younger than I am today. I'll never have more energy and better than I am today. But I also, I've never been more experienced and more equipped in my life than I am right now. Right. You know what I'm saying? And, and, and every day, if you're learning every single day, every day you have merited optimism, the next day is gonna be better. 'cause a better version of you is facing that day. And and that's how I go into every day with such a high level of excitement and enthusiasm.
Speaker 1 01:10:56 Alright, I'm gonna ask you this and we're gonna wrap it up. First of all, a couple, I got three quick things. One is you can say yes and no to this and add if you want to, but it sounds to me like too, the way you look at leadership is part of leadership is encouraging those around you who may lose that ability to say, am I in a comfort zone or am I a rut versus a whatever your job is to say, Hey, let's stay aware of this and maybe help push them a little bit. Like, let's get out
Speaker 2 01:11:20 Of it, let's do this. That's it. Let's go now you do this, let's do this. Let's go, let's do, yes. Okay. PE people will do things together. I mean, the truth of the matter is a lot of times right now if I was like, Hey, you know, I, I thought I'd give you a quick example. The guy Joseph, I was telling you about, I actually liked the guy. Okay. He lives across the street from my house. But about five years ago we got a new pool. And it was December. If he, if he'd have been like, Hey, you should jump in the pool. I'm like, heck no man. It's freaking December. But you know what he said one night we had a couple drinks. He goes, let's jump in the pool. You know what I did? Jumped in the pool. Why? Let's do it. It sounds fun. 'cause 'cause he's doing it with me. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Why did we did it. We were dumb. You know, we shouldn't have jumping into the pool in December, but we had fun. The truth is, when you say let's go, it's different than you go. And as a leader, they have to feel like you're alone with them. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:12:00 Well you're gonna win or lose with them, right? Yes. We'll learn together. I went to a sales training thanks to Bad, I think radio Chattanooga may have been settled all the time to Nashville. And a guy stood up in front of there, hundreds of us up there and he stood up and he said, I I wanted to show you all something. He goes, he put out a hundred ball, I think it was a hundred dollars bill. He goes, Hey, I'm gonna ask a question. Whoever gets it right gets the a hundred dollars bill. And he asked the question, bunch of hands went up, he asked it. Two, the second and third person got it right. Gave him a hundred dollars bill. He said, I wants do it again. Everybody said, yay. Put out a hundred ball bill. And he asked the question. He goes, now before you answer, here's the new twist. He goes, if you get it wrong, you owe me a hundred dollars. All the hands went down. And his point was, too many people operate out of the fear of loss. Yes. Instead of out of the fear or the hope. That's
Speaker 2 01:12:39 A great
Speaker 1 01:12:39 Example. It was perfect. Yeah. Because I was like, oh my gosh. That's a, again, you are looking at from your client's perspective, they're worried about getting taken for suckers and all that. Go ahead. 'cause my next question's about radio and we're gonna wrap
Speaker 2 01:12:49 It up, but it's one of the same things when if you're putting together a radio schedule for someone, instead of saying, I think you need to be on K 1 0 6, I think you need to be on WGOW and I think you need to do X, Y, and Z. No, I show him, Hey listen, we're gonna put you on every single day. Scott Chase is gonna open up the mic. He's been talking to his listeners for the last four or five hours a day for the last 40 years. He has a relationship and a trust with his listeners. We're gonna leverage that for your message, man. You know what I'm saying? And I show him what, what, what that investment looks like. I'm like, let's, I'm like, let's do this, let's do this. Why do you like
Speaker 1 01:13:17 Radio?
Speaker 2 01:13:18 I like radio for th for two main reasons. The main reason I like radio is because of our local live on air personalities. Mm. The reality is the relationship and trust they have with their listeners is freaking awesome. And the truth is, for a local business owner, there is nothing better than having somebody who has a relationship and trust a local influencer. Let's, let's be honest, think about Capital One, right? What you see, Jennifer Gardner, Samuel L. Jackson. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think they have their finance degree? Probably not. So what are they doing talking about Capital One credit cards? They're
Speaker 1 01:13:49 Leveraging their personality and their trust,
Speaker 2 01:13:51 Their personality, their relationship and trust, right? There's a relationship of trust that they have with the community. But one of them do something dumb in the news. What happens? They lose their endorsements because they lose the trust. Right? Yeah. We have local influencers, you know, capital One pays Jennifer Garner 8 million a year to do your spokesperson for 300 bucks a month. I can have a local influencer, someone who's been talking to their listeners that has a relationship and trust with their listeners, leverage their relationship and trust for your message to tens of thousands of people every day. Well if
Speaker 1 01:14:16 Anybody's listening to this and they wanna pay John and I 8 million, we will split it and be your
Speaker 2 01:14:19 Influence. 100% right
Speaker 1 01:14:21 Now we will get our shit together. I'll get mine together. His is together. I love the radio too. It and the talk products. You've been in a lot of markets, don't you think the talk product in Chattanooga is a little unique?
Speaker 2 01:14:31 It's awesome. It's awesome because,
Speaker 1 01:14:33 And by the way, so is kz. I grew up with turning and burn in the
Speaker 2 01:14:35 Eighties. I'm telling you right now, talk. It's
Speaker 1 01:14:36 Got Chase and all
Speaker 2 01:14:37 That talk here is awesome because it's just live a local all day from six eight to seven P, which is really odd. It's really hard to find in a market this size. 'cause most companies aren't willing to make that kind of investment in the local talent. But talk it's uniquely intrusive. And the neat part is, you know, if you're advertising on talk, you know, I hate to say this about a music format, but sometimes when the music stops people are like, I'm gonna go find that music on another somewhere else. The truth is with talk, it's spoken word to spoken word. A lot of people don't realize they're hearing in a commercial break. So they don't turn it off. And they're also background music is a real thing. People aren't listening to talk in the background. That's foreground listening. They're tuned in and they actually care what Jed is saying. What JR is saying, what Cowboy Joe's saying, what Quake is saying. So the truth is they care about their opinions on sports. They care about their opinions on the community. They also care about their opinions on local businesses. So a local business can take advantage of people that are tuning into these people because they trust their opinions. Well
Speaker 1 01:15:29 Even if it's background noise, I told the advertisers this all the time, it won't be background noise when they hear the ad that's relevant to them. 'cause not everybody that needs you now, that's it. Not everybody needs you today, but they will next month, next year. I think you're doing a great job. I've heard tons of great things. Your phone is blowing up. I've kept you way over an hour than I thought I would. I apologize to you.
Speaker 2 01:15:46 No worries.
Speaker 1 01:15:46 Are we good? Are you Yes. Keep you too long. Just,
Speaker 2 01:15:49 You know me man. I could talk all night. Well, just
Speaker 1 01:15:51 For the heck of it. If people listen to this and they go, Hey, I I I wanna talk about, you know, talk, and I've said this all the time, I think podcasts is an extension of, of radio anyway. Especially on the talk side of it. I love all of the radios and I love the whole talent over there. I I, I feel lucky to be part of the radio Ranch memories that what short time I was there. But with that being said, how do people find out more about you? Is there a place they can go check out? Can they call you if they go Well hell let me talk about KZ or the other products you have or talk.
Speaker 2 01:16:16 It's John Lewis, it's JO hn LS John dot Lewis at Cumulus. Like the cloud? Yep. C-U-M-U-L-U-S. john.Lewis@cumulus.com. That's
Speaker 1 01:16:28 Perfect. Yeah. He'll hook you up with somebody And I'm hopefully gonna get Deanna and Andy in at some point in time together 'cause those personalities would be fun at the table and the stories that we could share about the radio Ranch. John, thanks for coming in man.
Speaker 2 01:16:39 Absolutely. Thank you buddy. My pleasure. Bye everybody.